The Gaming Den

The Dead Man's Hand races that Frank described were very interesting, but I'm not sure how people will use them, or of anyone ran a game of DMH.

The idea of Race = Nationality really appeals to me. Basically, let's give the existing Races some sort of existing or historical Nationality or Culture as a sort of bedrock to help the DM and Players have a pre-made set of ideas for how a race thinks and acts; or at least pretends to.

Some ideas that came about from a thread that I just posted in are here:

No, not Japanese. Remember, they're a mockery of Feudal Japan, so Wapanese holds.

Orcs are British. Oooooh, then all of the brutish orcs are the equivalent of lower-class Londoners.....Which might make Frank's rage about how GW Orcs speak suddenly be slightly less. The Orc king and Queen seriously ride around in chariots and greet the people by holding their arms up and turning their hands at the wrist.

Races

[*]Of the Land

• Hobgoblins - Feudal Japanse
• Orcs - British, Also Pirates
• Humans - "Looks like ...."; they all look vaugly like one other race or an other. Humans are the result of trying to mix multiple races together to create an uber-race. So now they're everywhere. They were culturally viewed as inferior (not a 'true' race), but they can live among any other race (capable sons and comely daughters really helps a culture group assimilate itself into an other culture group).
• Goblins - Mongols, sometimes they want to take your cattle, sometimes they want to trade, sometimes they want to try and conquer an empire from the backs of their worgs.

[*]Of the Oceans and Seas

• Sahaugin - Post WWII to 1990's pre-Bubble Japan; eager to take on everything and everyone, and have pretty much done so.
• Kuo-Toa - Ancient Pre-Medieval China (From the same time as Alexander the Great - Roman Emire); Slow, Ponderous. Are getting taken over by the Sahaugin, but their nation extends deep into the ocean trenches and they're calling on their ancient monstrous allies to help them.
• Aboleths - Nerds, very creepy nerds. They've been playing "whose memories am I pretending to enact" in the oceans deepest trenches after being kicked out of the world power sphere for the last several hundreds of years, and now the Kuo-Toa's that have been supplying them with snacks and fresh creatures to gain new memories from have told them about this new threat. Of course, there's been adventurous Aboleths since time immemorial, mostly b/c they eat adventurers and love to replay their memories, so they try to capture more to gain more exciting memories.
• Merfolk - Cali Surfers. Work really hard at having fun and work real hard at not having to work (Sea Elves gladly do work in Merfolk communities). Try to emulate the Locatha, since they're good hardcore fish-men. Their god is a giant Fish-Man
• Locatha - Hawaii Surfers, think that the Merfolk are weak but don't mind showing them how to do stuff
• Sea Elves - Indigenous Island people of the South Pacific; Laid back, get along well with others. Love to have Locatha and Merfolk around since those two like to deal with Sahaugin; they usually live in Merfolk or Locatha communities

[*]Of the Skies

• Cloud Giants - Over-educated RV-driving Americans; Seriously.

Just some ideas.

Dwarves - stereotypical Indians circa technology boom+ in that anything that is craftable gets outsourced to them?

We're referring to actual Indians, not native americans? If so, I think that works superbly. Dwarves and caste systems go together like ketchup and mustard.

Imagine the surprise on the player's faces when Dwarven chili is what they're most famous for, and that their beer actually doesn't taste that good.

Okay, for other races:

Ifriti

Ifriti....I'm going to steal Frank's idea; they're damned dirty Spaniards.

Their race's motto is the unofficial one of Spain, "Viva JO!" (y a la puta que lo pario al resto). Translated "Hurray for ME" (and the rest of you can go back to the whore that birthed you). I was going to bowdlerize that, but to hell with it, we're all adults here).

The funny thing is, they respect bastards that force everyone out of their way; even if they're outsiders. Since they stand up for themselves.

The problem is that they're also really big on decorum and sexual double standards. So, being crude or offensive gets you challenged to duels, and males chase after females, but also females aren't supposed to chase males (or at least do so obviously).

Let's throw in La Guardia Civil; Ifriti with the additional cold subtype (ooh, so close to what they were really like) and a template that allows them to cast Fireball as a Cold damage attack. Not as a self-defense force, as a civil peace force. They patrol in pairs and they're scary to other Ifriti. They don't give a shit about PCs and will attack other Ifriti if they bother PCs in Sultanate territory.

Fey

Steal the DMH stuff


Bugbears

Norse/Cossaks.

They have bear cavalry. The Nordic ones have white fur and ride polar bears. Northern Bugbears use magic-covered glaciers as ships.

--------

The more and more I think about it, the more that I think that Earth should be the geography for a D&D world.

Why? Because it's easier and results in more accurate maps.

Most people can't design maps for shit. And there are thousands and thousands of real and good maps out there that anyone can use.

The only thing that you have to add is the fact that the underdark goes everywhere. Meaning that it has exceedingly deep parts under the oceans.

Also, if you have deep underdark adventuring, you have to either pretend that water/air pressure either exists or doesn't. I'd say that you don't, you have to walk there or portal there.

That or force PCs to wear a magic item that allows them to endure deep pressure. Without such an item, they get fatigued after a minute of strenuous work (like combat, or running).

Actually, I like that, this is the same as "you need X Fire resistance to enter the Ifriti Sultan's palace aggressively."

RIot: Yes, Dots not Feathers as I have been teased sometimes.

Judging Eagle: What is DMH for the Fey? Dead Man's Hand? If so, I don't think I was around for that discussion.

Other than that, it looks decent so far.

On the pressure issue. I'd say go ahead with the item as a minute of combat is hard to come by in rocket-tag. Running for a minute is a much more present possibility. The issue needs to be dealt with more on the basis if it is a minor foray into the underdark or if it is a campaign set in the underdark. for a campaign, I'd suggest ignoring it because that takes up an entire item slot.

DMH is on these boards, awesome read btw.

Well, just taking part in combat is super strenuous realistically.

The taking of an item slot is perfectly fine, people seriously have to wear Fire Resist gear to even enter the Ifrit Sultan's palace of solid flames. Few things in there will even bother using fire attacks.

Also I'm talking about the Deep Underdark, so under the ocean floor; hundreds or even thousands of feet down.

Some other races that I'd like to try out for this:

Elves - Germans? in that they're.....Elves are French, since they retreat deep into their forest kingdoms.

Halflings are medieval to modern Italians, love of food, music, good times, and organized crime under the noses of their Hobgoblin masters.

Hobgoblins are pretty much any successful and effective military culture. So they're also ancient Italians. They are split up into fortress-cities that 'protect' the valleys below. They fight back and forth from their mountain fortresses in order to control the valleys where Halflings and Humans live (remember, Humans are everywhere). All Hobgoblins think that they are "the true empire" and all use Eagle Motifs, and their commanders wear jaguar, lion, tiger w/e big cat skins as helmet/shoulder coverings.

Africa is full of spider people, and the other things from DMH.

India is Dwarves, jungle dwarves. Also, Gnomes.

That or Gnomes live in India (and lets say the bulk of the south pacific; the laid-back accept and nurture the natural world around you that gnomes and forest gnomes have makes them a pretty good fit for this).

Dwarves live in mountains everywhere, and are Indian (as in, from India). They make awesome curry. Out of gems. Their curries can cure illnesses, make people healthy, live longer, etc.

All the posted DMH discussions are here: Dead Man's Hand.

-Username17

Thanks Frank.

While we're on the subject, if we're going to have Drow as dark skinned, spider worshiping, poison using sorcerers, why the fuck are they always living underground and making dour Tolkinesque spires? Shouldn't they be a lot more Songhai?

Seriously, their stuff should look a lot more like this:

than this:


Although honestly, the difference between this:

and this:


Isn't that big.

-Username17

Actually... I never thought about Drow.

Like at all.

Make them Egyptians. Ancient Egyptians. That think that they should rule the world.

Who have giant pyramids that are essentially giant artifacts that only a Drow could use, or mebe an elf PC. Fuck, you could make every single structure from ancient Egypt "counts as magical architechture... of defense!"

So, the Drow are not overly powerful, but they're fucking impossible to invade, and when their Crocodile and Hippotamus riding slaver take your loved ones to work in the sandstone quarries, you can't mount an invasion, b/c their Obelisks will seriously blast you out of the sky (like the Tower of Nod from C&C or the Tesla Tower from Red Alert; basically the Drow obelisks shoot lazors, and their omfghueg statues are gargantuan or collossal stone golems.

Also, they worship all kinds of crazy crap, Cats, Crocodiles, Jackals, Snakes, and a Mummy and his Vampire Wife are the head of their pantheon; although their Eagle-headed Drow son is who leads the fight against the evil Donkey-headed god.

The donkey headed god is worshipped by Equicephs that live in the desert and travel from oasis to oasis and occasionally raid the drow settlements that tend to congregate on the Nile.



In some parts further south, the people are seriously a race of humans that are part ghost, and who have ghosts as active members of the community and family.

They're uber successful b/c their greatly respected ancestors can seriously tell them anything that they need to know, plus they can also use all of their Ghostly powers to help with stuff, like building a house, or smithing stuff, or farming.

These people seriously spend most of their "working" time shooting the breeze with their great ancestors while walking around and having the hard work of pushing the plow, sowing of seeds, weeding, done by people that can use Telekinesis (300 lbs worth of weight to boot) once every 6 to 24 seconds. While the living relatives do the work of carrying the seed bags or controlling the direction of the plough.

They don't really expand, b/c they tend to have their family members buried either at small plots at the edge or centre of a field. The only way that the ghosts travel very far is when their descendants carry the ashes/bones of their ancestors in a cart if the family has flocks of goats/sheep/cows that they graze in the countryside.

You can probably guess why this group is both successful and has few enemies (that live nearby at least).

I can't actually find the tribe that gave me this idea, but the Vadoma tribe is an acceptable fit.

The tribe that I was thinking about is one of really tall blacks that cover their bodies in white dirt or chalk and make other people think that they're ghosts. I read about them in a National Geo from the 70's or 80's.


I wasn't thinking about the ostrich-foot people of the Vadoma tribe.

Seriously, you could run an entire campaign in africa. There are seriously hundreds of very distinct culture groups that would be new material to most players, but would be based entirely on real things.

JE wrote:Seriously, you could run an entire campaign in africa. There are seriously hundreds of very distinct culture groups that would be new material to most players, but would be based entirely on real things.

I would be totally cool with that. There isn't nearly enough focus on African culture and stories in the modern world. We are all from Africa and fully half our genetic diversity is still there.

I mention Songhai (also Songhay) as an inspiration for the Drow not only because they have sexy black skinned ladies but because of the nature of their army.

Songhay conducted a draft and organized a professional army. The army--mostly made of slave battalions--lived in barracks separated from the civilian population. Mahnud Ka'ti wrote, "the great men of the Songhay were versed in the art of war. They were very brave, very bold and most expert in the deployment of military stratagems." By 1591 the army totaled 40,000 (30,000 infantry, 10,000 cavalry). Songhay warriors wore iron breastplates beneath their battle tunics, had lances, sabers and arrows with poisoned tips, and the infantry used leather and copper shields. The cavalry, like Mali, were the army's elite unit. The army sounded long trumpets during battles.

-Username17

Oh.... they had organization above and beyond all of their neighbours.

Who knows, maybe some drow really are crocodile riding slavers from Egypt or commanders of elite slave troopers from Songhay, while at the same time.... they could be chillin dudes that travel around in the tie-dye painted custom modified Juggernaut (MM2; hollowed out, so it looks like a van >_>). So, some Drow will welcome you and ask if you want to have some cow's blood with milk in exchange for guarding the cattle from roaming landsharks, but the Songhay and Ygyptos Drow will seriously wtfpwn you and take your stuff. In all likelyhood, you're a drow as well.

Pygmies are Svifttneblin, not b/c of size, but b/c of isolation. Okay, size too. It sort of works too, since they live in forests, just like other gnomes do; but obviously the Sviftneblin are hardcore gnomes since they live in the deepest parts of the jungles of the ..... I don't know what countries the pygmies (as well as other hunter gatherer tribes) are.

Troglodytes are the most primitive dwellers of the jungles. The kind that treat finding a bee's nest as awesometastic, since they now have a whole bunch of honey!

Everyone else beats them up b/c they're better at everything, and probably know about metal, and can buy/trade for metal tools. However, the Trogs are homophageous, so they are hard to drive away, or to starvation, b/c then they start taking your tri-husbandoid, you, your siblings, your children away for snakums.

The problem is....do you do a global or continental set-up for races as nations?

Perhaps both.

The drow think they're entitled to rule the world because, for thousands of years, they thought they did rule the world, to the point where it became ingrained in their culture. Ever since they learned that the deserts and the oceans can be crossed, they have been on a campaign of conquest, but it doesn't go very well, since their power base is mostly magical architecture and building pyramids takes time. Drow generally get taken out between the original conquest and the completion of a pyramid that secures their hold almost entirely.

Drow as Nigerian? Not seeing it. Nigerians I've met are far too upbeat for that.

More like Drow as Japanese. Structured yet stuck-in-ways, conservative yet insular, law observant to a fault, and above all sexually repressed to the point of self-depopulation. Other perks include focus on literary competence and a popular fad of illustration.
Seriously, you'd have a Drow art movement on your hands. Drownime floods your networks and kids read Lolthicon comics.

"Dude this is a Drow book."
"How do you know?"
"It reads backwards. And it's full of big-eyed dark skin little girls with pointy ears in maid outfits."

sigma999 wrote: More like Drow as Japanese. Structured yet stuck-in-ways, conservative yet insular, law observant to a fault, and above all sexually repressed to the point of self-depopulation. Other perks include focus on literary competence and a popular fad of illustration.
Seriously, you'd have a Drow art movement on your hands. Drownime floods your networks and kids read Lolthicon comics.

"Dude this is a Drow book."
"How do you know?"
"It reads backwards. And it's full of big-eyed dark skin little girls with pointy ears in maid outfits."

Wow. Already taken by the Hobgoblins, so the second part gets a little freakier. 'Big-eyed orange-skinned bald little girls with point teeth in maid outfits'...

Hey now.

Some hobgoblins are hairy as chewbacca. They live in the northern most islands; have an average life expectancy of 90 and the more hairless hobs along the south think that they're 'savage'.

B/c that shit actually happens in real life.


Ok, more things.


Trolls. Are hobos that live under bridges. Srsly.

Also, TROLLS ARE NOT EBIL. In fact, Trolls are allowed to live under the shelter of a bridge and are given license to eat all the fish that they can catch with thier own hands or tools that they have made, so long as they make sure that unscrupulous cattle farmers don't take their flocks all over the place and overgraze. They are also the assumed guards and operators of bridge toll booths.

Yes, that means the local troll has a higher social standing than the local human or halfling. Because the troll reports to the local magistrate/knight/abbot/etc. and give them actual cash for running a bridge.

I'm also going to just let Trolls have "Bridge Building" as a wierd racial power, the same way that Minotaurs have "I beat mazes" as a racial power. Trolls tend to have the [Earth] and [Water] subtypes, lava trolls have fire/earth, and you pay them in gems to wander around the more interesting regions of say.... any place with volcanoes.



Goblins.... the Mongols. They are short, ride small animals, and raid in hordes. nm, I already said that.

Ok, Giants.

They're.... neanderthals? or Mountain people in general. So, the Swiss are seriously giants. I'm not sure on which type, but I can seriously throw out nearly every giant race, except one, and be happy.

Mercenary Swiss Pikemen are a combat force that many armies love to hire.

I think Stone Giants might be best. We could have them also be Tibetans, Apache, and ....I forget if it's Maya or Inca that lived in the Andes mountains; but basically, anyone that lives in the mountains are probably going to be giants. Also, probably going to be Stone Giants.


Hill giants live in .... hilly areas. Like the Appalachians of New England, some of the hilly areas of... England (Wales?). What other hilly regions that are large are there in the world? Not mountainous, hilly.

Thinking of high ground got me thinking of it's opposite. Thus, Holland is all Locathah/Sea Elf/Merfolk territory. There they try to have canals everywhere, and they want to lower the ground, or perhaps make it into hills so that theres lots of water, but the land is higher up and takes up less surface area?

An other note on Dwarves, they don't always make curry. Sometimes they make chili.

and, while they don't _make_ booze; they buy and more importantly appreciate good booze.

They like everything from solid as a brick Orkish Stouts, all the way to delicate and actualy glowing Elven Moonshine.

Yes, elves make Moonshine. It's a magic drink made when they distill stuff on the nights of the full moon. That's only 3 nights every 28-ish days, so they have massive production capability for those three nights. They also make lesser versions of moonshine; and it's labeled with stuff like "Last Quarter Waning Moonshine" and "Waxing Gibbous Moonshine."

Ok, so, maybe they don't need massive production, but they do shut down during the new moon nights, unless they want to just make "Newshine." Newshine is still actual booze, but it's somewhere along the lines of sour wine or gin in terms of "standards."

On Orks. They're British, and they'll clobber your block if you say anything bad about King or Country. Unless they're Amerks.

The United States of America, Canada, South Africa and Australia have a lot of Orks, but the Yank Orks rebelled and now are their own state.


For native americans.... I'll steal everything from Dead Man's hand, b/c frankly... 1) it's awesome and 2) I don't want to do extra work.

I'll probably do the same for eastern Europe, Gypsies, and Russia.

Should Koa-Toa be all Chinese, or just the ones that live by the water? Maybe the ones that live on land are just human/deep one half-breeds? but the ones that live even more inland... I'm not sure.

For the most part, that covers most culture/ethnic groups. Except Africa, which has so many to pick from and create new species for each culture.


Also, I actually like the idea that americans, canadians and australians are Orks. Orks aren't stupid, they're just green and strong?

Fishmen = Chinese = Lovecraft, a man absolutely terrified of both fishmen and Asians ("heathen drums" and all that)

I'll vote yes to that.

My mind was changed about the goblinoid races when, in /d/ and various other parts of the Chan of 4, I encountered some wonderful artwork depicting the well-drawn adventures of a hobgoblin 'sex shaman' or similar. Other races included bugbear, goblin, and unknown variant (or perhaps darker, sharp-tooth hob... or a gnoll?) and of course an orc or few.
Respect +1, I'd play a hob sometime if given the chance.

I'm adamant about the Drow = Japanese. Hobs seem more of an imperialist British-type to me, or maybe that's thanks to Jaegermonsters.
Gee, thanks, Foglio.

I'll agree with the Americans/Canadians/Aussfags.. I mean Aussies... as orcs. We're all intellectually brutish, natch.
However, only on one stipulation: the acceptance of the fact that most Westerners of our varieties are not always pure orc, but instead mixes of elf, dwarf, fairy-like, goblinoid, etc.

Well, there's lots of humans that live in US/Canada/England/Aussie, since they get used by everyone as an "exotic" race that your species can make babies with.

No half breeds though.

A really short woman and a dwarf might get married and have kids, but each kid that they have is either a dwarf or a human. No half-breeds.

England would actually be a real mix of a place. Which means that the three resulting countries that they populated would also be a big mixed up place.

England started off with... (Angle) Fey, like in DMH, however there's (Saxon) German Hobgoblins (Jagermonsters are well, Jager is German for Hunter).

As well as: (Viking) Nordic Bugbears, (Nordic/French) Norman Hobgoblin/Elves, (French) Elves.

Orks are .... actually, I don't know why there should be Orks now. =/

Hobs are Imperialist by nature; also, a race can be in more than one place.

They can just as easily be Hobgoblin Shogunates, and a Hobgoblin Kaiser; and both are parts of entirely non-aligned or even un-connected empires....until WW2 starts; then they ally with the Hobgoblin chief warlord/"Duke" of Italy.

Drow are seriously more ancient and more aloof; I'd make most Middle Easterners Drow-like, and most Africans are either Drow, or Anansi-like spider people.

I'm also noticing that trying to reconcile DMH and D&D races into one world might be tricky.

On the other hand, if Germany seriously has Hobgoblins, Humans and Alfar, I don't think that it's a massive problem.

Italy could still seriously be a place where Loci, Halfling and Humans are the bulk of the population, and a Loci is the High Pontiff, but ancient remmnants of the Hobgoblin Imerium are still powerful houses and Stone Giants seriously live in the north.


Also, "giants" aren't large than Large, until they hit venerable or something, then they keep growning, slowly and maybe turn into boulders.

I could see Frost and Fire Giants still running around; there are volcanic area.

The muscular and handsome, golden-furred Bugbears could seriously have Frost Giant Jarls that they pay fealty to, or follow into battle. I'd get rid of Jotuns, mostly by folding them into Frost Giants. Doing things like making them need to wear furs all the time to keep cool. Perhaps they also use large, insulated and well shaded water tanks to keep cool when in warmer climates? Using their Bugbear subjects in painfully warmer climates would also work.

Fire Giants are part of the crafting and ruling parts of Greek/Macedonian Loci and Dwarven societies. They tend to dig all the way down into the ground and tap into lava everywhere. They use Lava Trolls as builders of tunnels and bridges over chasms or lava rivers; since Trolls like to do that sort of stuff for fun.



hmmm

Trolls

Yah, yah. I let you cross bridge when I get one yellow shiney for everyone barrel of Full Moonshine you want to bring into Brorgia Family lands. Also one silver shiney for everyone of the fighting men in your combany. Unless you want to just ford the river?

Trolls are natural spirits that were meant to help other creatures interact with the natural world, by helping to allow various creatures to travel around the natural world.

Of course, this sort of backfired. The water Trolls that build and safekeep bridges that used to do it in exchange for all the water they could drink and all the fish they could eat, now do it for shiney pieces of metal so that they can purchase tastier foods or stronger drink from the local leaders in whose land they control their hand and hum-built bridge.

Troll Bridges are remarkable in the fact that there really is no limit to how many people can cross at once, the Trolls can simply make their bridges wider by standing in the water, touching their bridge and humming. Then pieces of water from the river rise up and create more surface area on the sides of the bridge that is just as solid as the bridge itself.

This fact alone tends to let people with a local Water Troll become very lazy when it comes to bridge building, since a Water Troll bridge is potentially wider than a modern multi-lane freeway.

Likewise, killing a Water Troll is seen as either an espesially henious act, as their bridges are really nothing more than mud, clay, rocks and water that is hummed to every day. Meaning that when the Troll dies, the bridge dies with it.

Retreating armies that want to cut off following enemies tend to just kidnap a water troll, by bribing them with food and drink and asking them to collapse their bridge. Some proffesional Armies include one or two mercenary or simply adolescent Water Trolls as part of their engineering corps.

Lava trolls are the same, except that they like to eat stone and dirt. Lava troll solid waste is considered to be some of the most amazing fertilizer in the world, and Dwarves, Fire Giants and Lava Trolls work in concert to dig (or rather, eat) elaborate mining operations into the bowels of the earth. Lava trolls, like water trolls, can also create structures such as bridges or arching supports for caverns. However theirs tend to be more permanent as they are made up of fused stone or solidified earth (which turns into sedimentary stone, such as limestone).

Ok, I'm going to be using this for a new game that I'm running, and I'm adding more things:

Halfings: Modern Italians, but also modern Europeans, and a lot of city dwellers in major cities of the world. Halfings are the high end businessmen.

I'm also thinking that Physical size is a lot less noticable, or doesn't really exist between 'races'. Halfings are barefoot, and have noticable sideburns or muttonchops, but they're not half the size of a human. Likewise 'Giants' are taller, sure, but they're like 6-8 feet on average, not 9 feet.

Which makes interactions between races a lot easier, since you don't need a stool being introduced in order to allow a character able to talk with an other one without one of the characters shouting.

Other things:

The best repairman and craftsman is a giant awakened polar bear, and a bunch of other awakened animals are his assistants, friends, other employees in this massive crafting fortress.

I'm ripping off Doc's Machine, from http://www.the-whiteboard.com/
Seriously.

I'd rather be honest about my culture references, and actually give those people credit.

So, say, there are monks of the deathblade. But they all use purple glowing swords, since that's what the original material that George Lucas ripped off was for lightsabers, and parts of jedi. He also ripped off Kenjutsu for some of the mystical elements. This settings version of Jedi are guys who practice Kendo, and use swords that glow with purple lighting crackles and sparks. Since that what the original material was. Lucas wanted to make himself 'look' original, but it's BS.

Well, here's what I used in my own game set in a crime ridden city:

Elves are mafioso. The different variety of elves, different mafias. Goblinoids are gang bangers, gnomes are pimps, halflings are petty criminals, humans are white supremacists and dwarves are the worst stereotypes of Jews except for Duergar, who are the worst stereotypes of Muslims.

Magic in a Modern Setting

So, you've got, the Gnarled Root, the Mace of Smiting, and the Magic M-16.


In D&D, the 'assumed' level of techlology is that of around the time of the time of the Ancient Greeks, all the way to the late Rennessaince. Of that setting, the most advanced form of weapon technologies are:
-the Chu-Ko-Nu, the repeating crossbow that the Ancient Chinese built; their rate of fire, but low-ish range (50-75 yards), made them really good for use in support or defense of large formations of infantry from enemy infantry or charging cavalry
-the bombard, gunpowder powered mortars that could launch stone or iron balls; some of these could be so large that they would fire only 7 times per day*
*:

this was supposedly attributed to a massive cannon used by the Islamic force that laid siege and captured Constantinople, considered the "Rome" of the Byzantine empire (of course, when Constaninople fell it had been at the long end of a very constant decline, and had neither the military might, nor wealth, nor territory to be anything than a moral and political prize when it was captured)

-Full Plate armour (...

Always been a problem for me, real full plate isn't that bad to move around in; and I've worn heavy coats of plates that didn't actually really limit my ability or movement, and chain shirts that I've been able to move around quietly in.

I want to change this, but from a balance point of view, I'm not so sure.

-Masterwork Weapons and Armour; being able to make high-quality items is actually a sign of a high level of sophistication in a society. Inuit Hunters with ingeniously made tools meant to hunt their prey as pretty high tech, as they can understand the idea that well made tools are a good idea, and try to make them when possible.


The tech level of a modern setting is both... much higher, and much lower.

People seriously can buy a high powered rifle that is better than any bow and arrow ever made in terms of range, ease of use and lethal power; and it only costs a few weeks worth of labour at the most.

The thing is, most people can't also even make basic survival tools. A bow and arrow is beyond the ability of many people today.

That's fine.

For a modern setting, with 'magic', you will see a mix of magic items built not only out of medieval technology level items (swords); but also high-tech items, and even scavenged items.

The 'idea' that I'm going with is that the mass of an item that has been actually shaped or worked by the enchanting character, or prepared, and added by the enchanting character, is what indicates how much of the enchanting character's power may be placed into an item. So, a magic m-16 will probably have stuff like the stock and handle removed and replaced with wood, or metal; and the barrel cover removed and replaced; and possibly the stock-handle as well; otherwise the weapon could never even be magical.

Even then, the gun's total mass still is the originally manufactured stuff, so the magic m-16 will actually be less magical than a piece of rebar that the same mage used to create a Rod of Smiting, and welded bolts, washers, and rings of metal to build up a mace-head on what is basically a length of high-strength construction steel.

And that's the balance point between high-end magic weapons, and powerful magic weapons.

The Gnarled Root is seriously, a piece of wood, with some spines or even nails sticking out of it. However it can seriously cave in a giant's head in a few swings, it's also only about 20-ish inches long, and the size of a nightstick.

The magic m-16 is an m-16 that shoots rounds that count as magical. Meaning you can bypass some DR types, and can get a scaling bonus to your to-hit and damage.

A Flaming Blowtorch, that was hand made by the enchanting character will be much more powerful than one made from a Weed-burning flame-thrower modified into a magical blowtorch/flamethrower. Unless of course, the whole weapon is taken apart, worked on by the enchanter, in some manner; and then considered to have the whole thing 'made' by that character.

Usually, people are happy with 10-50% of an enchanter's power in a high-tech item; and 30-70% in a low-tech item.

Mages who are crafters also are noted as being artists, and in fact, many artists are also probably mages of some kind. So there's a rife amount of truck and trade in magical items, and people are actually paid for their magical items.

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If any of these ideas don't jive, please tell me.

Input is, as always, appreciated. Of course, I won't take every input, but I will take it into consideration.

Well, I generally use a Dungeonpunk setting but even I eventually decided I didn't like guns in my setting. At first, though, I used magic laser guns.